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How To Get More Leads And Sales From Your Website - With Peter Sandeen

Jun 01, 2021

Tom Bailey, founder of Succeed Through Speaking, interviews Peter Sandeen.

Peter Sandeen is often called the “marketers’ marketer” because more than half of his clients are marketing experts. His primary focus is marketing messages and funnels, but he’s spent nearly a decade in copywriting and conversion optimization. He now helps small business owners get more leads and sales from their website.

Why you've got to check out Peter's episode:

- Discover how Peter helps business owners who have a website or know that they need one. He specifically helps clients who have a direct responsibility for their website.

- Understand the biggest challenge of websites and why they can be hurting your pipeline and sales if you don't get the model correct.

- How you can achieve a six figure increase in your conversions and sales when you work with Peter to redesign both your marketing messaging and website.

- Why you should have a very specific goal for your website so that your visitors can understand it very quickly and make a decision if they want to proceed to the next step in your funnel. And why it is important to define your clients’ needs in their perspective, rather than what they look like to you.

- How to get access to Peter's clear process to redesigning your own website based on his own experience from designing his website -

Resources / Links


Tom Bailey: Hello and welcome to the Flow And Grow Expert Interviews. The place for experts and entrepreneurs who want high value ideas to boost business results. 

I'm Tom Bailey and I'm joined today by Peter Sandeen, who helps small business owners get more leads and sales from their website. So, Peter, hello and a very warm welcome to today's episode.

Peter Sandeen: Thank you.

Tom Bailey: Great. Thanks for being here. And whereabouts are you in the world right now?

Peter Sandeen: I'm in Finland.

Tom Bailey: Amazing. And how things been over there for you?

Peter Sandeen: Well, I still like living here. Yeah. It's a great place to live. I'm not sure it's a great place for tourists, but I think it's very, very good place for living.

Tom Bailey: Awesome. Now let's go onto the subject of Peter. So, Peter is often called the marketers marketer because more than half his clients are marketing experts, his primary focus is marketing messages and funnels, but he spent nearly a decade in copywriting and conversion optimization as well.

So, the title for today's episode is How To Get More Leads And Sales From Your Website. And Peter's going to show us how to do that in just under seven minutes. So, Peter, your first question for today is who are your ideal clients?

Peter Sandeen: Well, when it comes to the website stuff, it's business owners who have a website or already know that they need one. It doesn't really matter if you're redoing one or building anew, but the point is that you're still responsible for it. So, if you've completely outsourced it and you have nothing to do with it, you have an ad agency or something doing it, then you're getting good results then. Great. You're one of the lucky ones, but if you're somehow responsible for it yourself, even you have some help with the design and tech, then that's who I can help.

Tom Bailey: Excellent. And thinking of these small business owners who are running their own website, what's the biggest challenge they typically face.

Peter Sandeen: Usually it is that no matter how many times they redesign the website, no matter what tool or design they try, it doesn't actually start generating many leads or sales. And it often even actively hurts their sales cause potential customers before making the final decision to buy very might be even close. And then they go to the website to sort of get that last confirmation for themselves, that this is a good idea. And then they get a mixed message of what it is that you're really about. And it creates the sense of confusion of like, I'm not sure if this is really what I need. Like what, when we talked, I got the different idea and then they end up not buying after all.

Tom Bailey: Yeah. And you mentioned that, okay. Jumping from platform to platform there's, you know, Wix, WordPress, ClickFunnels, Kajabi. And do you find that that's, you know, an annual cycle? Awesome.

Peter Sandeen: Yeah. I think people often make switches because the different platforms are really good at promoting their own platform as the solution. It isn't, it's not the technology. Yeah. But yeah.

Tom Bailey: And, and this switching and lack of conversion, what impact does it typically have on their business?

Peter Sandeen: Well, quite commonly my clients, regardless of where they start from, see at least about a six-figure increase in sales, if they really do their website right. But that means we also do the marketing message well, which affects all your marketing, because if you know, what are the most compelling things you could be saying so that people really want to.

Actually, see the things they need to see. So, they want to buy then. Yeah, it impacts all the marketing, but six figures is usually what the project ends up being right away. Obviously, if you start from seven, eight figures, then you might see much more. But even if you start from just barely six figures or almost no sales, then six figures is a very common impact on, on the leads on the sales.

Tom Bailey: Incredible. And for those business owners that aren't yet at six figures, what's one valuable piece of advice that you might give them to help them push to that target.

Peter Sandeen: Maybe two fold answer. One is to have a very specific goal for the website. So direct people to something that you actually want them to do next, make it easy, make it appealing. But when you describe what it is, when you describe what you do say fewer things, at least initially have a much clearer, simpler thing you start with so that people can really understand it very, very quickly. Don't try to be the stereotypical used car salesman who lists out 50 different benefits. Rather just say the most important ones. Cause that's, that makes people feel like that's right. For me, it's not just good in every way. It's specifically what I want.

Tom Bailey: And I guess, would you say that a lot of that comes from really knowing who your ideal client is or who you're targeting?

Peter Sandeen: Yeah, you have to have that first. And I think you have to do it for based on their perspective instead of based on what they look like to you. So usually target customer is defined by what they look like to us, whereas what you need for the message is for you to define them based on their perspective towards you. If they don't see you and what you do in similar ways than no message is going to be very effective, you have to define it based on their perception or their perspective to the topic.

Tom Bailey: That's really valuable actually, because sometimes when we look at personas we, we start listing, what coffee do they drink? What car do they drive? But ultimately you know, that's what they look like to us. It's not necessarily their pain points or their desires, which is what we should be looking at. Thank you. And just the next question is if we've got somebody out there who really does need your help, have you got a free resource or anything you can share with them to really help them solve that problem?

Peter Sandeen: Well, I have a very clear process for redoing or building a new website. And I went through that process very recently when I rebid built my own website and I recorded a video about the whole thing, where I go through, why I did things, how I did things. I give some insight to how you do different things. Well, the common pitfalls to avoid and so on, and that video is available for free. If you want to see how it actually goes.

Tom Bailey: And, and have you got a landing page, people can go to that again.

Peter Sandeen: Would be a ,, our website it's written with a number six and then figure website.

Tom Bailey: And what I'll do as well is I'll, I'll, I'll drop that link below this episode. So, people can just click that and they can easily navigate straight to that page. Now, slightly off topic. I guess a little bit is question six. And that is, what would you say is your greatest failure that you've ever made either in life or in business? And what did you learn from it?

Peter Sandeen: Well, I think one that I've done many times and I think most people do many, many times, and that is what makes it such a failure is to stick to an old plan or an old belief without necessarily even noticing, even if there is clear indication that you do. Should do something different. If it isn't working. If, if the basic that you're trying to do, it's not leading anywhere, still wanting to stick to it because either you don't recognize that you have a belief you're trying to stick to, or that you have some need for sticking to the plan because of some cost fallacy or some other mental issue. Like, I really see some costs as a, like, if I ever noticed that its effect plays a part in my thinking, I really feel like I'm like, I'm losing it. But yeah, like I think that's something that has happened many, many times. And what I just learned from it is to just be more humble about what, what actually is happening. Be more realistic about it. I think it doesn't mean you have to be super negative, just be more realistic. Look at things as well. This is truly what's going on. These are actually the results I'm getting. I need to change. If I don't want to keep getting these results, I genuinely have to look at something different to do.

Tom Bailey: Great, great insights from your own journey. And the final question from me is to really help add value here. What what's one question that I should have asked you that will also give that great value to this audience today?

Peter Sandeen: Why is it that almost all website redesign projects fail?

Tom Bailey: And why is that?

Peter Sandeen: Because people focus on design and technology. And if you think you have, you go to a website, looks absolutely magnificent, best design ever. It has all the fanciest techniques technology you ever see on a website, but it doesn't make you feel like you're going to get something you want. Are you going to stick around? Just because it looks pretty. Probably not, but let's say you go to a website that looks just fine, nothing special. It works, but no special technology, but immediately you get this sense of, Hey, I can get something I really, really want, and I can't get elsewhere. Are you going to stick around? Yes. So, web development companies are 99% designers and tech geeks.

So, no wonder they sell you a very pretty website, that loads really quick, but that doesn't compensate for the lack of a good message for the lack of a truly appealing next step for people to take. So, focus on those things first and then just make it function because that's really the, what do you need from the design aspect of it?

Tom Bailey: Amazing. And just one, one reflection for me on that is. One of the first questions people ask is what's in it for me. And that that's in a lot of different scenarios, but navigating to a website is, is, is one of those situations.

Peter Sandeen: Yeah. If they don't immediately get the sense of like, I can get something I really want, not just something that could be valuable for me, but something I actually actively want. They're not going to stick around.

Tom Bailey: Yeah. Perfect. Well, thank you so much for sharing that last point. Very valuable. And thank you so much for your time. Again, incredible meeting you and obviously for sharing all of that great advice you have for business owners.

Peter Sandeen: Thanks for having me.