Episode 179 - Why Hard Work Isn't Getting You Promoted, with Olivia Pope
Succeed Through Speaking podcast, hosted by Tom Bailey
Plenty of talented women don't get overlooked because they're not good enough, they get overlooked because the right people don't see how good they are. My guest today helps them change that. I'm Tom Bailey, and this is the Succeed Through Speaking podcast. Now, it's been a while since the last episode, but the show's back with a brand-new format.
Every guest is an expert I'm working with, and we're gonna unpack exactly what they do, who they help, and how they help them. Today, that's Olivia Pope. Olivia is a career and leadership coach with over 20 years experience in financial and senior leadership. She's a CIMA qualified accountant, a qualified coach, and an NLP master practitioner.
So Olivia, a very warm welcome to today's episode. Hi, Tom. Thanks for having me. Thank you so much for being here. I'm gonna jump in with a really quick question today. So Olivia, in one sentence, who do you help and how do you help them? So I help professional women who are brilliant at their jobs but feel overlooked, get recognised for what they bring, and progress in their careers without having to become someone they're not.
Perfect. Thank you so much for that. Now, I want you to just think for a second about a very specific woman that you've worked with as, as a client, and think about what life was like before she worked with you, what was going on for her. I wanna just understand some of the biggest challenges and concerns that they have before they work with you.
So I can think of one person who was brilliant. She was producing excellent work, very creative, and the people working closely with her really respected and appreciated what she did, but senior leadership had a completely different perception. Their feedback was that they didn't really know what she was working on or what she was contributing.
Mm. And she just tried working harder and harder, producing more, but keeping quiet, and started to become really disillusioned and frustrated and was getting close to burnout. And I think what was really interesting was that she was reluctant to tell anyone what she was doing because she thought that it showed they didn't trust her, that if they believed in her, they would know that she was hardworking and busy.
So it sort of prevented her even more from wanting to speak out and share what she was doing. Yeah. I completely understand that. It sounds like there was almost a lot of assumptions on both sides, that the individual assumed that the leaders knew what she was doing, the leaders assumed that she would shout up if she wanted to, you know, position herself better.
So yeah, there's a bit of... there's a lot of danger that comes with, with assumptions.
So you've worked with this individual, and you've done some great work with her, and then her career started looking a lot different afterwards. So can you talk me through what life was like for her after you'd finished working with her? Yeah. So talking through what she was working on, we realised it was nothing to do with the quality of her work.
It was just about visibility and communication. So we worked through the story she was telling herself about communicating her value. So what if they do trust you to do your job, but they're not experts in your specific field? And maybe you wouldn't be bragging or boasting, and it's not about being trusted.
It's just about information sharing. Yeah. So explaining how the business resources are being invested. So she started sharing a weekly update with her boss, and also speaking up in meetings and explaining specifically what she was working on. And she has since gone on to get a promotion, which I think is brilliant, but more importantly for me, she's not disillusioned.
She's not burnt out. She's really loving her job, and she's excited about the future now. I think that's a really good point you made. That, that promotion, it's something we're all striving for, but if that promotion means burnout, then you might as well just stay doing the job you were doing previously.
So actually to, not only to achieve promotion, but also to have a better work-life balance and be happier and more fulfilled, that sounds like a massive win for me. So you spent about 20 years working in finance in, in senior leadership, and you're clearly very passionate about helping these clients of yours.
So take me back to how you got into this work, and what was the journey that you've been on to realise that you really wanted to help these people? My story is quite similar to hers- Mm-hmm... in that I just worked hard and kept quiet and thought that that would be enough. And it got to a point that I missed out on a promotion that I really thought I'd earned, because I was getting such great feedback from my stakeholders, and I couldn't understand why I didn't get it.
And I was so annoyed that I just tried working harder. I tried reading self-help books and doing personality tests, thinking I could un- unlock some extra level of work or effort, until I realised that it was nothing to do with that. It was I was being quiet in meetings, I was being dismissive when people would praise what I was doing, and I wasn't telling anyone what I wanted.
I wasn't communicating that I wanted that promotion. So once I learnt to do that and started tackling those things, then I moved into senior leadership. I realised that everyone that worked for me was doing the same thing. So all of the women around me were facing the same struggles that I'd dealt with.
And once I'd started sort of coaching and managing them and helping them progress, it just made me realise how much I love doing that, and I had to train as a coach so that I could do it every day. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. It's just so rewarding as a leader to see the people that you're supporting progress in their careers, and knowing that you've helped them as well is, is, is such a, again, like I said, rewarding thing.
One question I had just to build on some of what you said was around this, this feeling or concept of self-promotion.
Why is that so sticky and awkward and, and horrible? Why, why do we feel so uncomfortable doing that, do you think? I think firstly it's because I was told not to show off Mm... to, that it was rude to talk about myself. Yeah I shouldn't be telling other people how great I am. that it's just boastful and you don't brag, and it's not a very British thing to do.
But I think we confused that with, just communicating what we're doing, and just explaining, well, where are the resources of the business? What are you getting for that? What is the output? Yeah. That's what I should be communicating. No doubt Not... so it's just really a mindset shift, I think- Mm... to make it, I'm telling you what you're investing in and what you're getting for it, rather than, "Aren't I brilliant?"
Yeah Which does feel really uncomfortable. It does, doesn't it? And I, and I think that just, just relabelling it from showing off to communicating value, I think is just such an important shift, and I love it, and I think it's really important.
So we understand where they were before they worked with you. We understand where they can get to. What I'm really, curious about now is how they get there. What is the step-by-step method that you'd take somebody through to get them from where they are to where they wanna get to? So I've created a framework called Beyond- Mm-hmm
which is broken down into three stages. So the first one is about being seen, so understanding your own value and how other people perceive you, so being really clear on your strengths and experience and achievements, and looking at what you want to be known for. Then being heard, so starting to actually talk about it, having conversations that really matter.
It might be asking for something, giving feedback, or resolving a disagreement. And then going beyond, which is about taking ownership of your career, so getting really clear on where you want to go, building relationships with people that can help you progress, and turning that into a practical plan. And it's based on your real life, your own situation.
It's personalised so that you can actually go and get the next promotion, the next role, whatever it is for you. So it's specific. Sounds amazing. I think I just love the fact that it's so step by step, it's linear. You do step one, then step two, then step three, and by the end you're in a place where you're ready for that next promotion.
So I think it's really important. And I also really like the fact that it's personalised as well. Everyone's careers are different, everyone's professions are different, everyone's journeys are different, so to personalise that experience I think is so important.
Couple final questions from me. The, the first one is, I'm really curious actually, what is... what is one of those misconceptions or myths or common beliefs that women have about getting promoted that you think is absolutely wrong, and we wanna just squash that myth for them? I think it's that we need to be nice and that people need to like us.
Yeah. So I think women are often taught to be polite and agreeable and not make a fuss, but when we take that into our working lives, believing that being liked and not rocking the boat will help us get ahead, it- I think it's really the opposite. In the time that I've spent managing people, the ones that really stands out aren't necessarily the ones that always agree with me.
Mm. They're the people who are able to challenge ideas, offer a different perspective, give honest feedback, or have difficult conversations. And I think we sometimes confuse disagreeing with someone with being difficult or confrontational. And, if you're constantly agreeing with people just to keep them happy, you're not necessarily being honest, and I think then that undermines trust and damages relationships.
So I think you can be honest and considerate without agreeing with everybody. Yeah. And I think actually that can help you progress better if you're able to tackle things that other people are avoiding. Yeah. And, and I think, you know, it- it's professional as well, and we see these high performing teams, they're the ones whereby they can give each other feedback, challenge each other, hold each other to account, and I think that's really important and, and it's a great piece of, great piece of advice for everyone listening.
So final question from me today. If somebody is listening and they'd love to work with you as a coach, or they'd love to find out more, what's the next best step for someone to take to move towards working with you? I'd say the best place to look is on Eventbrite, so find me there. I often run free masterclasses to help people go from being overlooked to getting their next promotion.
Or it would be to connect with me on LinkedIn. Amazing. Thank you so much, and I'll drop those links in the show notes. Anyone listening can click those, and they can follow Olivia online. So Olivia, thank you so much. That was brilliant. And here's what stood out for me, and this is for everyone listening. I think for me, Olivia's clients, they're great at their jobs, and the problem's never ability.
It was about visibility. And with Olivia's Beyond Method, she's the go-to person if you want help with this. And that's really the whole point of positioning. When you can explain what you can do in the right way, that people recognise it, you become in demand, and they move towards you. And if you are an expert and you'd like to be known for what you do, stay connected, as we'll be covering that in detail and more in future episodes.
I'm Tom Bailey. Thank you so much for listening, and I'll see you next time.
